Friday, July 11, 2008

On the Eucharist: Why can't Protestants receive Catholic Communion?

A friend recently wrote the following on her blog:

"we went to catholic mass on sunday. it was great to be in church, and the priest mentioned a few times the desire for unity among all those who believe in jesus, which is something we all can hope for. but then came communion, and protestants aren't supposed to take catholic communion. it saddened me that i wasn't allowed to take communion, since we believe in the same God, the same body + blood + cross + resurrection. also, to my knowledge, protestants would welcome catholics to take communion in a protestant church. so i'm not sure why the reverse isn't true?"

This post will be my attempt to shed a little light -- however dim -- on the issue for my friend, from a Catholic perspective. I hope it might be helpful or interesting to others, as well.

What is Catholic Communion?


I'll start off by saying that the sacrament of Communion, or the Eucharist, is something far more profound than most people -- Catholic, Protestant, or otherwise -- realize. I won't pretend to have a complete, or even an adequate, understanding of the Eucharist, either intellectually or spiritually. But I'll do my best to explain what little I can as clearly as I can.

Most people just can't accept the fundamental Catholic teaching about the Eucharist, but here's what it boils down to: The Eucharist is Jesus.

That little disk that looks, smells, feels, tastes exactly like a bland wheat cracker, that liquid in the chalice that sure seems like wine, actually is the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of the Second Person of the Trinity. Not just symbolically. It really is Jesus -- God -- in the most real, full, and immediate manifestation of Himself that we can experience in this life.

To get philosophical about it, the sacrament of the Eucharist involves "transubstantiation," meaning that the substance, or essence, of the bread and wine changes -- in a real, fundamental, ontological way -- into the substance of the Body and Blood of Jesus, while the accidents/appearances/characteristics -- those things that can be observed with the senses -- of bread and wine remain.

The word transubstantiation means that this change of substance is complete: The Body and Blood of Christ are not contained in the bread and wine, nor do they exist side by side with the bread and wine. The bread and wine are gone, completely replaced by the Body and Blood of Jesus.

That the accidents of bread and wine remain means that if you were to hold up a consecrated ("transubstantiated") Host next to an unconsecrated one -- in other words, if you were to hold the Eucharist in one hand and an ordinary wheaten wafer in the other -- you would not detect the slightest difference between them. If you put them under a microscope, they'd look exactly the same. They'd taste the same, too. No matter what scientific scrutiny you subjected them to, you wouldn't find any discrepancy between them.

But one would be a cracker, and the other would be the Savior of the world.

This miraculous transubstantiation takes place when, during the Mass, the priest holds the wheat bread and grape wine and says the words of institution that Jesus spoke at the Last Supper ("This is my body" and "This is my blood"). By the power of Jesus' words and the Holy Spirit, the bread and wine truly become the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Christ, and Jesus' once-for-all sacrifice on the Cross is made present on the altar. At the Mass, we are thus present in a mystical but very real way both at the Last Supper and at Jesus' Crucifixion.

The Church refers to the Eucharist as "the source and summit of the Christian life." It is a conduit of grace -- the very life of God -- for our souls. It is the greatest gift God could possibly give His Church, because it is the gift of God's very Self. For that reason, when the priest elevates the consecrated Host and the chalice of the precious Blood, we can -- and in justice must -- worship it and in our hearts exclaim, "My Lord and my God!"

Why do Catholics believe all this?


Now, if this all sounds completely ridiculous, or if you're thinking that I must not really be saying what it sounds like I'm saying, that I couldn't possibly believe that I'm literally consuming God when I go to Mass each week, then you're experiencing much the same reaction that Jesus' disciples had the first time He foretold the institution of the Eucharist, when He told a crowd, "I am the living bread which came down from heaven; if any one eats of this bread, he will live for ever; and the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my flesh" (John 6:51).

Naturally, this didn't make a lot of sense to His hearers, who obviously took Him quite literally: "How can this man give us his flesh to eat?" (John 6:52) they asked each other. Now, Jesus had run into problems before with His disciples taking Him literally when He was merely speaking figuratively (see Matthew 16:6-12 and John 4:31-34). In such cases, He was always quick to clear up the misunderstanding.

But in this instance, Jesus reiterated His shocking message even more emphatically: "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed" (John 6:53-55).

At this point, many of Jesus' disciples said, "This is a hard saying; who can listen to it?" (John 6:60) and walked away. But Jesus didn't call after them, "Wait, come back! I was just speaking metaphorically!" Why? Because He was being cruel and deceptive? Or because He hadn't been speaking metaphorically?

We find the same kind of literal language in the accounts of the Last Supper, when Jesus instituted the sacrament of the Eucharist. Luke records it this way: "And he took bread, and when he had given thanks he broke it and gave it to them, saying, 'This is my body which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me.' And likewise the cup after supper, saying, 'This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood'" (Luke 22:19-20). The same God Who spoke all of creation into existence declared bread to be His Body, and so it was. (Those words, "Do this in remembrance of me," by the way, are where the Church finds the institution of its sacramental priesthood.)

That the apostles understood Jesus to be speaking literally at the Last Supper is evident from the testimony of the early Church, which was taught by the apostles. Ignatius of Antioch, a bishop who was martyred for the faith in the early 100s, and who was himself a disciple of the apostle John, wrote to the Church in Smyrna about "those who hold heterodox opinions" that "[t]hey abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the Flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, Flesh which suffered for our sins and which the Father, in His Goodness, raised up again."

For 2,000 years, the Catholic Church has trusted in Jesus' words at the Last Supper. She has celebrated the Eucharist as the very center of the Church's life and has maintained a steadfast faith in the life-giving reality of Christ's real presence in the Eucharist.

Why can't Protestants receive Catholic Communion?


So, after that long introduction (which, believe it or not, barely scratches the surface of the Church's rich and polyvalent understanding of the sacrament), we actually get to the question we started with: Why can't Protestants receive Communion in the Catholic Church? As this question was posed in the context of a desire for Christian unity, I'll try to address that issue as well.

The Catholic Church longs for Jesus' prayer "that they may all be one" (John 17:21) to be fulfilled, and is grieved by the fact of division within the Body of Christ, because division is contrary to the will of Christ, Who is the Head of the Church.

Since the Catholic Church understands herself to be, historically, the one Church that Jesus founded, she sees herself as the locus of Christian unity and prays that all people might be reconciled to her and, through her, to Christ. Which means, to put it bluntly, that the Catholic Church desires, ultimately, for all people to become Catholic.

Doesn't that make the Catholic Church the most delusionally presumptuous and hubristic organization on the planet? Yes it does, if the Church's desire is not also the will of God. But that's a topic for another excessively long essay.

Does this desire mean that the Catholic Church does not regard Protestants as true Christians? By no means! The Church regards all those who have been baptized as brothers and sisters in Christ and recognizes that God is truly at work in Protestant communities.

But while the Church sees non-Catholic Christians as brothers and sisters in Christ, she must honestly acknowledge that they are "separated brethren." While the Catholic Church longs, works, and prays for full unity in the Body of Christ, the wounds of division cannot be healed by fiat. While great strides have been made in mutual understanding and reconciliation between Catholic and non-Catholic Christians in recent decades, the longed-for unity is not yet a reality.

The Eucharist is a sacrament of unity: It both signifies and strengthens the bonds of unity within the Church. You might ask why, if the Eucharist is a source of unity, Catholics wouldn't encourage Protestants to receive Catholic Communion, so that the divisions in the Body of Christ might be healed. The answer to that question can be found in Paul's first letter to the Corinthians. After recounting Jesus' words at the Last Supper, Paul writes:

"Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord. Let a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself. That is why many of you are weak and ill, and some have died." (1 Corinthians 11:27-30)

Serious stuff. And so the Catholic Church's teaching that Protestants -- who typically do not discern the Body and Blood of Christ in the Eucharist in the same way that the Catholic Church does -- ought not receive Catholic Communion is born, not out of some ill-conceived and insensitive desire for exclusivity, but primarily out of love. Undoubtedly it can be hard to feel the love when you're the only one left sitting in the pews at Communion time, but love really is the motive.

The passage from 1 Corinthians also highlights another Church teaching about the Eucharist which is rarely emphasized or even acknowledged these days: Catholics are not to receive the Eucharist if they are conscious of having committed any serious sins which they have not confessed in the sacrament of reconciliation. To receive the Eucharist in such a state of sin is, itself, a serious sin. Protestants are not the only ones who ought not receive the Eucharist at Mass. There are, in all likelihood, several Catholics eating and drinking judgment upon themselves at most Masses by receiving the Eucharist in an unworthy manner (I have, unfortunately, often been one of them in the past), and we are not to be envied.

There is more that I could say -- and much, much more that could be said -- about the Eucharist, but this post has gone on long enough.

If you have any questions or want to take issue with anything I've written, please feel free to leave a comment or send me an e-mail, and I will do my best to respond.

And if you want more complete and authoritative information about the Eucharist than I can offer, please check out the Catechism of the Catholic Church or, for a briefer treatment, the Compendium of the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

139 comments:

Anonymous said...

It seems to me that the Orthodox church sees Catholics in much the same way as the Catholic church sees Protestants. Your posting makes me wonder: can Catholics receive communion at Orthodox churches?

Samir said...

here's some eucharist-related news: http://helives.blogspot.com/2008/07/jokers-over-jokers.html

i can't imagine how anyone in this situation could have acted any more wrongly. the dumbass professor, donahue, everyone. just all wrong. i wish christians would show a little less moral outrage and a little more grace. it would have been such a great opportunity for catholics to cogently explain their beliefs about the consecrated host and show grace to pz meyers. but instead it just turned into a shitshow.

Then Chee Min said...

Your explanation still does not explain why some Catholics will not receive Communion from Protestants. Are the elements less "body & blood" of Christ because it is not conducted in the Catholic Church? In essence, the division still exists despite the talk about love & unity.

Charli and me said...

Hi, I happened upon your blog today and found your post very interesting to read. I wanted to read the funny little story in the previous post but something is wrong with your link. I will stop by again soon. I hope you have a beautiful day. Pease be with you :>)

Anonymous said...

I don't know if anyone has answered the previous anonymous comment/question, but yes, Catholics can receive the Eucharist at Orthodox Churches if there is no Catholic Church because the Orthodox teaching on the Eucharist is the same.

Fawver said...

Thanks for the post. I had been wondering the same thing as your friend. I was raised a Protestant, but lately I've been attending Catholic Mass to simply learn the differences between the two.. (plus there just aren't any protestant churches open when I am able to go). I completely respect the Catholic faith, afterall, it is the brother to the Protestant faith, however, I can't help but interpret what Jesus had said in the bible as a non-literal statement. It isn't simply because I was raised to not take everything in the bible literally, but Jesus said himself that he wanted his disciples to remember him and think of him while they ate the bread and drank the wine; that the bread was his body; the wine was his blood. I suppose it just seems "obvious" to me that it wasn't meant to be literal, rather, he used the bread and wine as a symbol so that his disciples could better think of him... but then again, I suppose nothing is obvious from the bible. We all have our different interpretations. Perhaps it also is just frustrating because I would like to remember Jesus in the way he had intended when I attend church. Instead, I have people climbing over me in the pews to go take communion. I am sure you understand, and I understand your reasoning as Catholics see it. Despite the small differences between Catholics and Protestants, I will continue to explore and enjoy doing it!

Anonymous said...

Catholics aren't that bad when it comes to wanting everyone to join their church. In fact one of the things we pride ourselves on is that we don't try and push people to join our church....unlike those religions that go door to door asking for you to conform to their belief.

Anonymous said...

I don't know why other Catholics dont have communion at other churches that allow it, but I for one always believed it was something I had to work up to get. I had to attend classes and have a huge ceremony to be able to have communion at the Catholic church so when I go to different churches I always have the sense that it's important and I shouldn't partake on that communion until I'm more informed on their belief system.

Anthony said...

I am a nondenominational Protestant believer in the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist; however, whether or not it be by transubstantiation or consubstantiation I have yet to conclude. Meditating on the scripture, I am leaning toward transubstantiation. Really, it is of little import; what matters is that Communion is a sacrament, “a rite believed to be a means of or visible form of grace,” that works ex opere operato. That is to say, it is the FAITH in the consecrated elements and the FAITHFUL PARTICIPATION in a divine mandate that save.
Catholics do not receive the Eucharist from outside the Catholic Church because, frankly, outside the Catholic Church, the Eucharist does not exist. How can I say this? Because the Eucharist can only be consecrated by one with the authority to do so. And according to Scripture and doctrine, Christ passed authority down to what is now known as the Catholic Church through “the process of apostolic succession.” When Christians became divided in the Protestant Reformation, those Protestants that left the Catholic Church did NOT inherit the authority conferred to the Catholic Church. Thus, Catholics refrain from Protestant Communion, because the Eucharist of Protestant Communion is not properly the Eucharist. By this, Catholics do not participate in non-Catholic Communion, even if the teaching regarding Communion of the church is identical, because it is not an issue of whether or not the church has proper faith regarding the Eucharist, but of whether or not the church has the authority to consecrate the Eucharist. Regarding the Orthodox vs. Roman Catholic Communion: both are Catholic, both have been given proper authority; indeed there is not really a division between the two because they are theologically unified and all Orthodox bishops trace their lineage back to one of the twelve Apostles through the process of apostolic succession, as do Roman Catholic bishops.

Rhonda said...

Anthony, I just read your comments and totally agree with you on every point. Thank you for writing such a clear, concise explanation. I am so sorry that everyone can't understand and believe. I was Methodist for 49 years and it was the happiest day of my life when I took the Eucharist for the first time at the Easter Vigil in 2005. The True Body and Blood of Jesus, believer.

Anonymous said...

I am a non-denominational believer in Christ who is still thoroughly confused about the Eucharist and the exclusion of non-Catholics from participating in the Sacrament.

From what I understand, being a part of "the church" or the "family of God," and hence being under the authority of Crhist, occurs once you have repented, accepted Christ's sacrifice by faith, and your soul has been 'reborn' to eternally belong to God.

That said, why wouldn't anyone who believes this have the ability to partake in the sacrament for which Jesus commands participation? As long as the person has examined his/her heart and takes communion seriously, why would someone be banned from communion simply because he is not called catholic?
The protestant's soul is identical to the soul of a Catholic. Why then, should there be discrimination based on a denominational title?

joel said...

Thanks for taking the time to put together such a well thought out post.
I notice you use 1 Cor 11 as part of your reasoning.

Have you considered that the Body of Christ (in that text) refers to the people as the Body of Christ? The problem in the Corinthian church is that the wealthy were eating and the poor had no. So, failure to discern the Body of Christ happens when we fail to see each other as Christians.

I believe any Church which does not allow other Christians to the altar is guilty of not discerning the Body.

Anonymous said...

I have enjoyed reading all of these post. I am a daughter of a Baptist preacher, and I attend a Catholic church (because of the good education). I have been in Catholic Theology classes for many years. I agree with what many of you have said.

Something that made me thing was Anthony's post "When Christians became divided in the Protestant Reformation, those Protestants that left the Catholic Church did NOT inherit the authority conferred to the Catholic Church."

I don't agree with this Protestants and Catholics all have the same heritage and we recognize the same people in our history. Abraham, Moses, and the Twelve Tribes, so how can we not have the same "authority" over the eucharist that the Catholic priest do.

I believe that Protestants and Catholics view the eucharist in different ways. Catholics believe that it is the actual body and blood of Christ. Protestants (not speaking for all) believe that it is the a symbol of the body and blood of Christ. So Catholics may choose to not take the eucharist in other churches because it means something different to them, but that does not mean that the Protestant eucharist is not the proper eucharist.

torculus said...

Excellent forum. Taylor Marshall has a current posting that might be of interest to your readers.

I'm a convert who has lurked near this site on a few occasions. I had a few guests over for dinner the other night and one, an evangelical Anglican, asked why she was prohibited from receiving the Eucharist at a Russian Orthodox liturgy she had recently attended. At the same time, she stated that she understood that she would also be prohibited from receiving the Eucharist at a Catholic Mass and she asked why that, too, would be the case. It was moment when the division between christians became palpable. Our discussion was frank, truth-centered and charitable.

We touched on the following:

1. the teaching found in Scripture concerning the Eucharist has been lived and celebrated continuously since Jesus established the Mass (Lord's Supper). Catholics, in holding to the literal interpretation of Jesus words, are merely being faithful to what we've been taught by the Lord Himself and handed on by the Apostles. The early Church Fathers, i.e., the orthodox bishops, all taught the Catholic understanding of the Eucharist. By contrast, protestants abandoned the Apostolic teaching at the Reformation and produced a teaching that was an innovation.

2. The Eucharist, which is the one and same Sacrifice of Calvary made present on the altar at the hands of the priest, is also the sacrament of unity. To receive the Eucharist without being in full communion (exceptional circumstances permitted by canon law duly noted) is to claim unity where none or little exists. To pretend that Catholics and protestants are in full communion would be a lie. A lie, of course, is no basis for communion. Catholics may not receive communion at a protestant service because by so doing a Catholic would be embracing false teachings about the Eucharist.

Mike Moran said...

In our church if you are a baptized Christian you are welcome to participate in the sacrament of communion. Since we recognize the legitimacy of baptism according to ancient doctrines developed before there were the Orthodox/Roman Catholic/Protestant divisions, it's a very simple issue for us. We say: "This sacrament is for all who wish to know the presence of Christ and to share in the community of God's people. Christ welcomes you. Christ recognizes you. Christ invites you into the circle of fellowship in his name."

Charley said...

This is a fascinating discussion, a topic very much on my mind lately. I've been attending a Catholic church for a few months now. Much of the experience has been positive, but I've felt excluded and thus insulted for not being made welcome at the lord's table.

The quotation in the main post from I Corinthians contains something that I think argues exactly opposite from the poster's point: "Let a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup." Note "himself". I buy that. If I examine myself and feel I am worthy to dine with--and to dine OF--my savior, why should I not do so? Jesus and his disciples taught much of hospitality, among other things. It feels inhospitable for the church to bar me from the lord's table.

Furthermore, when Jesus died on the cross, the curtain in the temple was torn. To me this has always meant that from that point we as individuals could have personal relationships with God. We no longer required a religious hierarchy to act as our intermediary. Hence, does the church have any authority to stand between my and my savior?

BTW, I buy the notion of transubstantiation. I know many protestants do, though certainly not all by a long shot. At the same time, I'm sure plenty of participating Catholics don't, yet they sup with Christ weekly. I see hypocrisy here. I think the only ones who can rightly judge an individual's worthiness to be at the lord's supper are the individual and Jesus himself.

Anonymous said...

I respect the Catholic Church and the Protestant Reform as both were better followers of God because of the split.

However I have yet to find scriptures that speak anywhere of an "Authority To Deliver" the Eucharist?

Anonymous said...

Are we forgetting that there are agnostics, athiests, muslims, and others that still need the eucharist. What is the Catholic's PROOF, that the eucharist is the flesh and blood of Jesus. I have read the bible (the gospel 3 times), and yet still don't just accept things just because of reading a book. The person writing this entire explanation on why he can recieve the eucharist, but other's can't needs to understand that he can only recieve the eucharist if he KNOWS 100% that that is the body and flesh of Jesus. Do you???? After all, the 12 disciples lived 3 years with Jesus, witnessed many, many miracles, and EVEN THEN they still did not have faith. After 3 years of living with God, they still did not have faith, but you claim to have faith. Intersting. The 12 only recieved faith, when Jesus was resurected and came back and talked to them. AND EVEN THEN, ST. THOMAS SAID I STILL DO NOT BELIEVE UNTIL I PUT MY FINGER THRU HIS WOUND. Again no faith. What did Jesus do, he showed up to St. Thomas. So why can't he show up to us, today, to muslims, protestants, athiests, agnostics, to ALL. If you had not recieved the miracle of faith, then you should not have the eucharist. Period. If you have the true faith, that the 12 had throughout their long journey with Jesus, then do not claim to be christian. As for me I still do not know for sure that Jesus is God, but guess what, it feels good to not just accept things blindly. The longer you go back in history, the more things become certain. How certain are we about dinosaurs, or about the events that took place 2000 B.C. or 4000 B.C. People forget that the events that took place with Jesus happened 2000 years ago, not yesterday. So don't be ashamed and scared to doubt. St. Thomas doubted, and Jesus answered. So why can't God answer TODAY. Does God not feel like it anymore. Ask and you shall recieve. I have been asking for 8 years now, and I still do not say I have faith. Interesting how so may religious people are just "lucky" to have faith. They just accept. Right!! Just accept. Do you ever use your brains and think, and actually pretend that you were actually there when Jesus came. How would you feel if a human being came to you and said that I am the creator of the world. A little small tiny human, tells you that he is the creator of the universe. Hard to believe? You bet. BUT, funny as heck, people believe that this happened, and they did not even meet this person, like the original 12 did. Please wait for your miracle before you talk. This is sin. If humans would shut up and wait until the invisible air around them talks to them, then maybe, just maybe we would have honesty. And honesty would lead us into truth, and if God is truth and Jesus is truth, then that is what we would find out.

Anonymous said...

Sorry a few typos on the last post. I fixed them:
Are we forgetting that there are agnostics, athiests, muslims, and others that still need the eucharist. What is the Catholic's PROOF, that the eucharist is the flesh and blood of Jesus. I have read the bible (the gospel 3 times), and yet still don't just accept things just because of reading a book. The person writing this entire explanation on why he can recieve the eucharist, but other's can't needs to understand that he can only recieve the eucharist if he KNOWS 100% that that is the body and flesh of Jesus. Do you???? After all, the 12 disciples lived 3 years with Jesus, witnessed many, many miracles, and EVEN THEN they still did not have faith. After 3 years of living with God, they still did not have faith, but you claim to have faith. Intersting. The 12 only recieved faith, when Jesus was resurected and came back and talked to them. AND EVEN THEN, ST. THOMAS SAID I STILL DO NOT BELIEVE UNTIL I PUT MY FINGER THRU HIS WOUND. Again no faith. What did Jesus do, he showed up to St. Thomas. So why can't he show up to us, today, to muslims, protestants, athiests, agnostics, to ALL. If you had not recieved the miracle of faith, then you should not have the eucharist. Period. If you DO NOT have the true faith, that the 12 had throughout their long journey with Jesus, then do not claim to be christian. As for me I still do not know for sure that Jesus is God, but guess what, it feels good to not just accept things blindly. The longer you go back in history, the more things become UNCERTAIN. How certain are we about dinosaurs, or about the events that took place 2000 B.C. or 4000 B.C. People forget that the events that took place with Jesus happened 2000 years ago, not yesterday. So don't be ashamed and scared to doubt. St. Thomas doubted, and Jesus answered. So why can't God answer TODAY. Does God not feel like it anymore. Ask and you shall recieve. I have been asking for 8 years now, and I still do not say I have faith. Interesting how so may religious people are just "lucky" to have faith. They just accept. Right!! Just accept. Do you ever use your brains and think, and actually pretend that you were actually there when Jesus came. How would you feel if a human being came to you and said that I am the creator of the world. A little small tiny human, tells you that he is the creator of the universe. Hard to believe? You bet. BUT, funny as heck, people believe that this happened, and they did not even meet this person, like the original 12 did. Please wait for your miracle before you talk. This is sin. If humans would shut up and wait until the invisible air around them talks to them, then maybe, just maybe we would have honesty. And honesty would lead us into truth, and if God is truth and Jesus is truth, then that is what we would find out.

Anonymous said...

How certain are we about the details of the lives of dinosaurs? That is what I meant, just incase someone was wondering. I know we have fossil evidence, but because of how long ago they existed, we know a lot less about them, compared to if dinosaurs existed last week. In other words the further you go back in history, the less certitude you have. So in order to know that the Eucharist is the flesh and blood of Jesus, then you need way, way, way more than just historical evidence.

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Vic said...

Doctrine set aside. The most important thing to remember is That GOD manifested in the flesh. He died for us and rose again. That is the belief that all Christians believe Catholic or Protestant. That's all that matters.

Matt said...

I am humored by your affable explanation of Catholic doctrine. It is an offensive dogma riddled with Roman post-pagan practice. When Jesus held the last supper did he turn his own dinner into his blood and body, if so for what purpose would he eat his own flesh and drink his own blood?
Jesus also said the church his bride. This must also be a literal interpretation by where not symbolic union in heaven but where physical intercourse is the culmination of the second coming. I would count that as a detractor for a majority of male Christian believers.

mtemccrary said...

I am humored by your affable explanation of Catholic doctrine. It is an offensive dogma riddled with Roman post-pagan practice. When Jesus held the last supper did he turn his own dinner into his blood and body, if so for what purpose would he eat his own flesh and drink his own blood?
Jesus also said the church his bride. This must also be a literal interpretation by where not symbolic union in heaven but where physical intercourse is the culmination of the second coming. I would count that as a detractor for a majority of male Christian believers.

Anonymous said...

"However I have yet to find scriptures that speak anywhere of an "Authority To Deliver" the Eucharist? "

Catholics rely on Scripture and Tradition, not Scripture alone. We belive that Roman Catholic bishops and priests can trace their "authority" directly to the 12 apostles; namely the bishop who annointed my bishop was annointed by a bishop who was annointed by a bishop....who was annointed by one of the 12 apostles, whom Jesus annointed.

Also, Jesus has offered proof throughout the ages that the Eucharist is truly his body and blood. Just google "Eucharistic miracles". There are stories about hosts which bleed real human blood as confirmed by non-Catholic scientists, and so on and so forth.

I also do not understand how Christ offers his body and blood in the Eucharist at thousands of masses a day all over the world. But just because I do not understand it, does not make it not true.


And yes, the Church is Christ's bride. Christ gives his body to his bride in the Eucharist just as a husband gives his body to his bride in the consummation of marriage. Sex in marriage is a gift that God has given us to give us just a foretaste of the love that God will have for us in heaven. "Eye has not seen, ear has not heard, what God has given to those who love him"

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It was mentioned in a previous post that the person did not understand how Christ is able to offer himself at every Mass said.
Here is a meager explanation: God exists outside of time and space. He created time and space and a creation has no control over the creator. So at the moment when the bread and wine become the body and blood of Christ we are transported through time to the one sacrifice on the cross.

Anonymous said...

I am quite incandescent. I was brought up as a-religious, in that my parents did not indoctrinate me into any religion at all. As i grew, I decided that I wished to discover religion and attended by local C of E church. I attended 12 weeks of confirmation class - yes 12 weeks, and found the entire process enlightening. The thought that as a protestant I do not believe in the real presence of Jesus is a complete insult and that I do not believe that the eucharist that I take does not represent the body and blood of my Christ pretty much disgusts me. I have been to mass, my son attends catholic church and I have never heard such rot in all my life. Maybe I may stop us converting after all if such bigotism exists in the catholic faith. I am very disillusioned!

Anonymous said...

And in reply to ANTHONY

We have Henry VIII to thank for that, WE are not to blame for our FATHER'S SINS, no matter what you say WE had no say in that matter and despite the wars that ensued the people had to go along with their leader. How do you put the sins of the King on his people? At the very least the Catholic Church has been very unforgiving to its people, the tudor people had a choice, the Pope or die! The religion is so close it is uncanny (yet much more consistent and contemporary - lessons could be learned here) but it was very vindictive and clings to that, explain.

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OPT said...

I came across this posting while searching on Google. It doesn't look as though anyone has correctly answered the first question, whether Catholics can receive communion at Orthodox churches.

The answer is no, but not because of Roman Catholic Church reservations. It is the Orthodox Churches that refuse this. A Catholic cannot go into an Orthodox Church against the wishes of that Church's teaching. Orthodox, however, are free to come to Catholic communion IF they clear it with their own bishop. This is because Rome recognizes the apostolic succession of the Orthodox Churches and the validity of their doctrines on the Eucharist. The Orthodox disagree on Papal Primacy and the Filioque. There are obviously other more subtle differences.

The good news is that there are annual discussions between the Churches and much rapprochement. The bad news is there is historical animosity not easily overcome.

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Catholics aren't that bad when it comes to wanting everyone to join their church. In fact one of the things we pride ourselves on is that we don't try and push people to join our church....unlike those religions that go door to door asking for you to conform to their belief.

Anonymous said...

actually the Catholic Chruch has proof. It's called Eucharistic miracles and there are more of them than you could count. In fact there were some instances where the flesh of Our Lord was actually shown not under the appearance of bread but rather of his flesh. It's called the Eucharistic Miracle of Lanciano. A priest was having doubts about the Real presence and didnt believe it was really Jesus. When he said the words of consecration, the bread turned into the VISIBLE flesh of Jesus and the wine into his VISIBLE blood. Truly amazing! Google it.

Anonymous said...

"Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord. Let a man EXAMINE HIMSELF, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself. That is why many of you are weak and ill, and some have died." (1 Corinthians 11:27-30)

What I don't understand is this...If this is something that the church believes...why is everyone not given an equal chance for themselves to do just that...discern and examine themselves as to whether or not they should partake of the bread and wine. The thing that bothers me is....as much as I understand that this is supposed to be done out of love, I don't even get the respect of examining myself and discerning for myself whether or not I should partake of it, simply because I am not CATHOLIC. Doesn't that make the whole "Let a man examine himself and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup," null and void. Am I not a man? Am I not a follower of christ even?

What truly bothers me is the catholic church does not view me, because of differences in interpretation of the same text, not even a different text, as someone who is even worthy of discerning for himself whether or not I should partake...when I honestly go into the practice with the same reverence....like somehow the church is more concerned with the idea that I might possibly view things a little...just a little...differently than they do than focusing on what it means for them. As if somehow I might "infect" the whole process because I am not worthy of even determining for myself whether or not I can partake.

Essentially, I see this practice, as the clergy discerning for the man, and not the man discerning for himself whether or not he should be involved. And as much as Catholics may want unity...this simple fact, that I cannot choose for myself is what is dividing people in this instance. If I am eating and drinking judgment upon myself, then let me also be among the thousands of catholics who do the same every time they themselves partake of the eucharist in an incorrect fashion. Where does it say in the bible that the priests are free to determine the condition of a person's heart, and what they believe, and determine whether or not they can partake? I'm not trying to cause an argument here...so please don't take it that way...I'm just presenting what the whole thing is like from my perspective.

Margaret said...

I am so glad to find this post. Recently a friend of mine who is Baptist came to Mass with me. She got up to go to communion and I told her that she could not receive but she was welcomed to to cross her arms to receive a blessing. Without my knowledge she took the host and put it in her pocket.

After I left I spoke to the priest and thanked him for the Mass. He then asked me about the woman and stated that he wasn't sure but he thought he saw her take the host and stick it in her pocket and for me to find out. When I did, I was alarmed. I asked her for it back and took it to the priest whom consumed it right away.

This incident happened last Sunday on 3/18/12. I am still baffled by the entire experience and searching for answers when I happened upon your post dated four years ago ~ has certainly brought a bit of light to my experience.

Thank you.

Margaret said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Rev. Jeff Foster said...

Thank you for speaking plainly and honestly about faith. I will attempt to weigh in as a Pastor with a church who's history is reformation and practices open communion. I have read many of these posts and along with seminary training and personal study see error in Catholic and non Catholic interpretation. Why? The discussion of manna in John 6:51. Jesus says, “I am the living bread that came down from heaven.” He is drawing a comparison here between himself and the manna that sustained the Israelites during their thirty-eight years of wandering in the wilderness. He says that manna had to come down every day. It did not sustain you permanently; it only sustained you for a day. You have to eat it again, and those that ate of that bread all eventually died. He is saying that he is a different kind of bread that comes down from Heaven. He is the real thing, the permanent thing. If you eat of this bread, you will never die. Listen to what he said: “I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats from this bread he will live forever. The bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.”

Jesus is talking about His presence as the Lamb of God giving atonement for sin and unperishable flesh broken for all to consume (Phago in Greek). This is a discussion on Jesus favorite teaching, faith. Faith for daily life as the manna of thankfulness. Faith in the freedom from sin purchased by his blood offered once for all. This is done in remembrance so like the freed children of Isreal we the freed children of Jesus our savior are being prepared for now and eternity (the promise land). We are no longer in Adam's flesh but a new covenant in the Spirit and glorified image of Christ. As Luke 22:15-22 states one day we will partake with Jesus in the flesh!

The last part about Judas make the point about eating unworthily just as Paul indicates 1 Corinthians 11:27 regarding greed and false motives.

So the original question in my mind is answered in the full context of what Jesus is doing and teaching. He is celebrating his return with those who have faith and reminding them of the break from the religious systems which were in adequate. Now we are saved by the faith in the blood shed for us and the new flesh which we consume as the body of Christ. We are in Christ or not in Christ and nothing can be added to what God has done. Everything else including sacraments, works, prayers and worship assembles are outward signs of an inner transformation. We do these thing publicly to encourage one another and to draw outsiders. Note the punishment for abusing our new passover (Eucharist) is correction by the Lord, not condemnation. 1 Cor. 11:32 But when we are judged, we are disciplined by the Lord so that we will not be condemned along with the world. There is now no more condemnation for those in Christ. Jesus tried to correct Judas by exposing his deception, but he had been feeding his flesh and giving his life to Satan rather than the Lord and his Spirit.

So if you come to our weekly meeting house and there is the breaking of bread, we will ask you if you have received Jesus as Lord (the new covenant) and to confess to God or others any unresolved offense so that you recieve the elements in celebration.

vevans said...

This is a great thread and it is very sad to see christians, Catholic non - Catholic or whatever Christian label you put on yourself be divided. Communion was meant for all Christians to remember Christ and to take the real body and real blood. Does it change before entering or after entering the host I think doesn't matter it is all about Christ and remembering him. Christ rose from the dead so he is alive and wants unity in the Church.

Anonymous said...

The Code of Canon (church) law also shows only Catholics can receive Catholic Communion except in rare situations:
Can. 844 §1. Catholic ministers administer the sacraments licitly to Catholic members of the Christian faithful alone, who likewise receive them licitly from Catholic ministers alone, without prejudice to the prescripts of §§2, 3, and 4 of this canon, and ⇒ can. 861, §2.

§2. Whenever necessity requires it or true spiritual advantage suggests it, and provided that danger of error or of indifferentism is avoided, the Christian faithful for whom it is physically or morally impossible to approach a Catholic minister are permitted to receive the sacraments of penance, Eucharist, and anointing of the sick from non-

Catholic ministers in whose Churches these sacraments are valid.

§3. Catholic ministers administer the sacraments of penance, Eucharist, and anointing of the sick licitly to members of Eastern Churches which do not have full communion with the Catholic Church if they seek such on their own accord and are properly disposed. This is also valid for members of other Churches which in the judgment of the Apostolic See are in the same condition in regard to the sacraments as these Eastern Churches.

§4. If the danger of death is present or if, in the judgment of the diocesan bishop or conference of bishops, some other grave necessity urges it, Catholic ministers administer these same sacraments licitly also to other Christians not having full communion with the Catholic Church, who cannot approach a minister of their own community and who seek such on their own accord, provided that they manifest Catholic faith in respect to these sacraments and are properly disposed.

§5. For the cases mentioned in §§2, 3, and 4, the diocesan bishop or conference of bishops is not to issue general norms except after consultation at least with the local competent authority of the interested non-Catholic Church or community.

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matej said...

So, “Let a man examine himself …” certainly means that somebody else should make examination instead. I understand.

Anonymous said...

THANK YOU for this beautiful explanation of the Eucharist and the reason we do not encourage protestants to receive it! I believe!
You should also mention that Catholics should not receive Communion in protestant churches, since it is wrong to reverence what is not considered Real. Without Apostolic succession, it is not real.